Loot Pinata Making 101


Role-playing survival game is willing to take risks

With the release of Borderlands 2 only a few weeks away, I decided to replay the first one, which was one of my favorite games from the last decade. Even at the early game, the sense of value in the loot already feels more refined then it did in Diablo 3.

The same I could say about relating the game: Path of Exile to Diablo 3. Looking at these three games closely, each one uses randomization and loot tables to dictate item generation. But there are some elements that make Borderlands and Path of Exile’s loot more meaningful compared to Diablo 3.

loot

Consistent Purpose of Attributes:

(Note: Borderlands has additional loot in the form of shields and grenades, each with their own series of attributes and effects. To keep this post focused, I’m going to ignore them and focus on the guns and modifiers.

Each game relies on growth to show both the character’s development and the progression of new loot. No one wants to use the same piece of gear for hours on end with exception to rarer items. Each one features a different set of attributes that are tied to the overall progression of loot and character development.

For Diablo 3 there are:

  • Strength
  • Dexterity
  • Intelligence
  • Vitality

In Path of Exile there is:

  •  Strength
  •  Dexterity
  •  Intelligence

Borderlands, being a role playing shooter, doesn’t have any character attributes. Instead every weapon in the game is built on 4 attributes:

  • Bullet Damage
  • Accuracy
  • Firing Rate
  • Ammo Capacity

Looking at each title, we can see where they differ and how it affects the decision behind loot. In Diablo 3, while they are 4 attributes, only two are important to each individual class: the primary attribute and vitality. The reason is that the primary attribute affects both damage potential and the defenses of the character.

loot

If we look at Path of Exile, even though there are only three attributes, each one has a purpose regardless of the class.

Besides being a gear prerequisite and improving skills, each stat has a dual purpose in terms of character development. For example: Increasing Strength will affect both the character’s health pool and the amount of damage the player can do with physical attacks.

Lastly with Borderlands, every attribute has a value to the weapon and a choice for the player to make. Do I take a gun that does 100 points of damage, but shoots one bullet at a time? Or a gun that does 25 points of damage but shoots four times faster than the previous? Throw in ammo capacity and accuracy and the idea of a “perfect choice” becomes blurred.

As you play any of the three games, you’re going to amass a lot of loot, but the amount of actual choices is different. In Diablo 3, there are a lot of false choices, as loot that doesn’t have bonuses to your primary attribute or vitality won’t help improve your character. But in the other two games, the attribute’s purpose remains the same regardless of the item and the character, giving the player more options to decide from.

In my Diablo 3 analysis I suggested that the designers should have gave every attribute some kind of meaningful value to every class. That way it would open up choices to the player and make the search for loot, not so dry. The other angle of loot generation is in the use of modifiers: Special affects or bonuses that can be attached to loot. Once again, the design of the modifiers has a huge affect on loot generation.

Masterful Modifiers:

Modifiers in loot generation are meant to be game changers, as their purpose is to raise the value and lifetime of wearing a piece of gear, while offering the player more choices. The more varied the modifiers are in game, is usually better. However, quality can be just as, if not more important than quantity.

In Diablo 3, there are a lot of modifiers, which we can separate into three groups: universal, item specific and class specific. Universal modifiers are ones that can appear on any item, such as: bonuses to specific attributes. Item specific are ones that are exclusive to certain pieces of equipment such as: “increase movement speed” on boots. Lastly, class specific affect either the specific resource pool of the class, or skills and are restricted largely to class specific gear ( I have seen some of these modifiers on regular gear, but few in far between.)

The problem with Diablo 3 is how there are so many modifiers that are useless in the grand scheme of things. The different types of elemental effects are negligible and lack the specific bonuses seen in Diablo 2. The other reason is that modifiers around special effects like “freezing” or “cause enemy to flee” have their chance to happen so low, that it’s impossible to build your character around them to use them effectively.

Only a few of the modifiers are really important for surviving in Diablo 3: + primary attribute, life on hit, resist all, + vitality. While magic find is only useful when the player has to farm areas repeatedly.

Class specific modifiers fall into the same problem of having their bonuses so low and hard to find one that is applicable to the player, that you can’t build your character around them. In Diablo 2, the chance of finding class specific loot was far greater, with rarer items having multiple class specific bonuses. Another major negative to Diablo 3, is how class specific gear, more times than not, have bonuses to attributes other then the primary attached, further downplaying their importance.

In order for modifiers to work, they must have a purpose and noticeable effect on the character. Path of Exile has weapon modifiers (which will be discussed in the next section) and a variety of universal modifiers.
Unlike Diablo 3, elemental affects have major in game uses: ice has a chance to freeze enemies; lightning can cause enemies to take more damage for a few seconds, etc.

Path of Exile takes things a step further with every piece of gear, having a randomized set of sockets attached to them. These sockets are used in combination with the skill gem system for equipping and enhancing skills for the character.

Borderlands has the least number of modifiers of the three, but that doesn’t make them any less important. Weapons can have modifiers in the form of positive and negative effects, while rarer weapons can have special effects, such as a shotgun rocket launcher.

One of the most useful effects is whether or not a weapon has a scope attached, as a scope can get around a weapon with a default low accuracy rating.

Borderlands does have elemental effects with each one built around a strategic decision. For instance: electrical based attacks do massive damage against shields, but not so much against armor, with the opposite being true for corrosive damage. The important part is that each one becomes an important choice for the player: “Do I take a weaker weapon, but one that has an elemental affect over one that has a higher base damage?”

Differentiating Weapons

Finally, the more varied the weapons are from each other, not only gives the game more flavor, but it also increases the choices for the player.

This is an area that Diablo 3 is the weakest at. Because the primary attribute factors so much into character growth, the weapons themselves are homogenize because of it. For instance, a dagger could be stronger than a two handed battle axe. Instead of offering choices to the player, there is no discernible difference between each weapon class.

The Path of Exile team came up with an interesting solution. Each weapon class has base values associated to it that grow with each new version of it. A dagger for example will not do anywhere near the same base damage as a 2 handed club of comparative level. The other factor is that every weapon class comes with a modifier regardless of its rarity. As an example: clubs always have a higher stun chance, while claws will drain the enemies’ health and give it back to the player.

Not only does this give each weapon personality, but it becomes a factor in how the player builds their character. The weapon also affects what skill gems can be used, as certain special abilities can only be used with specific weapon classes.

Borderlands is one of my favorites in this regard, due to how the developers added personality by integrating the setting of the game. As in Path of Exile, each weapon class has a base set of attribute values. A shotgun will never be as accurate as a sniper rifle, or a SMG will not do as much damage in one bullet compared to a Rocket Launcher for instance.

Each class has proficiencies in several weapon types, but the player is free to use any of the weapons that they find. The developers took this concept of fleshing out the weapon types further with the use of gun manufacturers.

In the Borderlands universe, there are several powerful mega corporations, with each one having their own weapons line. Each weapon manufacturer had a different philosophy on weapon design which is factored into their weapons. One company specialized in elemental damage, and every one of their guns will have an elemental modifier. While another one is all about damage, and their guns have the highest base damage rate, but usually at the expense of something else.

Of the three games mentioned, the weapons in Borderlands easily have the most personality of the three. Making the choice of what is the “best weapon” never easy. And when that choice is not clear cut, it makes every new weapon, or the opening of a treasure chest, even more exciting.

An action RPG without great loot can make it feel like half the game is missing. And the search for a cooler gun, or a shiner sword can be all the motivation needed to wade through dungeons and armies of evil.


  • Man, I wish you could play Torchlight 2 Beta. Every one of the 4 classes can use any weapons, and there is so much variety… A mage can walk around carrying a freaking literal CANNON if you want. There are also several modifiers, rarities and sockets, so you can upgrade your loot too.

    I particularly thought that Torchlight 2 was somewhat better than Path of Exile but maybe it's a taste thing.

  • I did play the early beta of TorchLight 2. It was good, but this was before they talked about restructuring the skill trees.

  • Anonymous

    Torchlight 2 is for casuals. Loot addicts don't care for that game.

  • Some arguments are wrong in this blog about Diablo 3 (D3).

    “[…]the designers should have gave(sic) every attribute some kind of meaningful value to every class.”

    In D3, strength increase Armor by 1 point, dexterity increases dodge (I forgot the ratio) and intelligence increases All Resist by 0.1 point. So all the attributes benefits all the classes, albeit by a small number. Granted, this is not as beneficial and well designed as Path of Exile.

    “For instance, a dagger could be stronger then(SIC!) a two handed battle axe.”

    At the same item level (iLvl), with maximum stats, a dagger will never be as strong as a two-handed axe. But the flaw, which is a fatal flaw in my opinion, is that in order to counter the global economical system of the auction house, both in gold and real money, Blizzard significantly reduced the random number generator (RNG) output on the item generation. This is why you can have stronger daggers than two-handed weapons of similar iLvl. Blizzard actually limited the core essence of their game.

    I was disappointed in Blizzard's delivery of D3 as well as many players, but let's not spread misinformation. The only major flaw of their design was limitation of RNG. The rest is personal flavor.

    LPT: making mistakes like misuse of than/then, as well as grammatical errors can severely hinder your credibility.

  • Tim

    An interesting, well thought out post.

    Shame that the Blizzard apologists are still so rabidly devout.

  • “in D3, strength increase Armor by 1 point, dexterity increases dodge (I forgot the ratio) and intelligence increases All Resist by 0.1 point. So all the attributes benefits all the classes, albeit by a small number. Granted, this is not as beneficial and well designed as Path of Exile.”

    You're not the first person to bring this up and I have the same question in response:

    As a monk, if I could choose from three items that give 100 strength, 100 dexterity or 100 intelligence. Why should I take anything but the dexterity item if given the choice?

    In Path of Exile, even as a strength based character, intelligence still factors in as both raising your innate resistances(at a higher rate than in D3) and your mana pool.

  • I totally agree with that. I too felt that alternate main stats (those not pertaining to your class) in Path of Exile were more integrated to all classes unlike in D3. I finished Diablo on Inferno just to close the lid on the game. I would be playing PoE right now if not for Dawnguard DLC.

    I'm looking forward to Torchlight 2 and Borderlands 2. Call my cynical, but I have a feeling they won't disappoint.

  • Anonymous

    While they certainly could've made the non-primary stats more useful in D3, I think that is not central to why the loot hunt in D3 feel so unrewarding compared to those other games. The off-stats actually are fairly useful in D3. I think they are underrated for a few reasons. They are all only useful for defense, and many players only want to consider loot that increases their damage output. Defense is highly useful in D3, so I think this is a mistake. Also, you can only search for 3 attributes in the D3 AH, so I think people sort of condition themselves to believing that the three things they search for are the only useful ones.

    There are certainly several useful stats in D3 that aren't attributes. Crit % and damage, attack speed, life on hit, life leech, life per second, life %, all resist, armor, sockets, all of these things are capable of making a big difference in your character, and are worth trading primary attribute for in the correct amount. Again, I think the AH search restrictions lead people to minimize the importance of these things because they get used to not looking for them.

    The AH is really the single cause of almost all of D3's perceived flaws. Because the market is so efficient, you are always better off selling gear you find and buying a well-itemized set of gear for yourself, as opposed to trying to piece together a gear set from your loot drops. The drop rate is irrelevant in this situation. Even if they forced rolls to be 50% higher or whatever, you would still mostly find gear suited for other players, and other players would find most of the gear thats good for you. Once you have distinct classes looking for different gear and an efficient market, nothing is going to prevent that market from being the best way to progress.

    Since the AH will always be the most efficient loot progression mechanism, and since randomly rolled rares are the best loot in the game, it basically becomes a situation where you know what you are looking for in each slot, and progression amounts to searching for higher numbers on gear with meaningless names (and all the same graphics). That just isn't fun for people.

    Again, it all starts and ends with the AH. Even if they buffed every underpowered stat and increased average rolls or drop rates, you would still find yourself going to the AH looking for higher rolls on a specific set of attributes for each item slot. It wouldn't feel any different at all.